beer school | learning to like more than one kind of beer.

5 Comments

1. Jeff Bearer had this to say on May 30, 2007 | Permalink

   I finally got around to listening to Beer School, You’ve been around a little too long for me to welcome you to the beer podcast community, so I’ll just give you a hiya. I would have listened sooner if podcastready.com wasn’t puking on your feed ever since I first tried to subscribe.

   Over all I like the conversational format that was I assume adapted from TWIM but some of the rabbit holes were too deep for the beer show IMO. I think that your outlook on beer is great. I can’t stand beer podcasts that have the wrong spirit, which was one of my main motivations for starting my Craft Beer Radio.

   I need to say that I disagree, with your stance on Surly Brewing or at least think your targeting of Surly is unfair!

   Let me start by saying that Surly is not available in Pittsburgh and I have not had any of them, I have only heard of their reputation in the craft beer industry. Also I’m not a huge fan of uber aggressive beers and feel that some brewers go over the top.

   First. To say that they are running counter to the spirit of the craft brewing industry is unfounded. You made it sound like Surly is promoting aggressive beer drinking, or being a belligerent drunk. How does Surly’s image differ from Stone Brewing? Not that your said you supported Stone, but how can you call out one Aggressive brewery without comparing them to Stone the archetypical bad boy of brewing? Look at their marketing: Arrogant Bastard Ale, “Fizzy yellow beer is for wussies”. “It’s not too expensive, you’re too cheap”. “You won’t like this beer”. Flying Dog is another brewery with plenty of attitude to spare. And when Sam Caligone from Dogfish Head Speaks he is downright militant against the big three breweries.

   These guys are running a business, and the brewery image is as much marketing as many craft brewers can muster. If they decide to be the bad boys of the industry, good for them. But I ask, what does this have to do with the flavor of the beer? and isn’t that what counts?

   You go on to say that “they aren’t brewing to style”. I find this incredibly hypocritical coming from someone from the west coast. I don’t want to stereo type you, maybe you hate nearly every west coast brewery, but it’s par for the course for west coast breweries to break style guidelines.

   For example I’ve not had a single ESB from the west coast that is anything like the style calls for. Anderson Valley’s ESB while a great beer does not compare to Fullers in your wildest imagination. Plus Pliney the Elder, Rogue I2PA and Moylans Hopsickle required that a new style category be invented because they were crushing the established style, was it that bad that they missed existing style guidelines? No way they are delicious.

   Now if Furious had something about the flavor that you didn’t care for then complain about that, For example, I don’t like Avery Maharajah IIPA, it was too sticky too sweet. Stone Russian Imperial Stout, same thing, too sweet. Those are valid reasons to hate the beer, not the mean looking guy on the label.

   As a person who is educating the masses about craft beer I feel it’s your duty to be objective and review the beer that is in the glass, and not let your perception of the attitude of the brewer be the thing the listener remembers when it’s all over.

   We recently got Eisenbahn in Pittsburgh, and I have a whole new opinion of what breweries can accomplish in South America, plus when the Shelton Brothers are the importers, you you can be pretty sure that it’s not some crappy South American beer.

   Also, to straighten out something from the beginning of the show, here are some details about Boston Beer Company and where their beer is produced.

   Back in the day, some time around 10 years ago Boston Beer contracted extra capacity at Pittsburgh Brewing to make Sam Adams Boston Lager. Then they bought what I think was a Miller brewery in Cincinnati Ohio. It’s a brewery with a huge capacity, at that point they stopped brewing in Pittsburgh as they were able to produce all of their beer themselves.

   Last Year ImBev sold the Rolling Rock brand to Anheuser-Busch but AB did not buy the brewery in Latrobe PA. The brewery sat idle until just recently when City Brewing out of Wisconsin purchased the brewery. And now starting last week Boston Beer Company is contract brewing some of it’s beers at the Latrobe Brewery. They must be out of capacity in Cincinnati, good for them.

2. motor had this to say on June 1, 2007 | Permalink

   Thanks for the feedback. Speaking only for myself, I think that Surly
   is a bit in-your-face name, unless they are referring to one of the
   Seven Duffs from the Simpsons. Of course, the Fox lawyers wouldn’t
   let anyone do that. But the “Get Furious” thing? I don’t think anyone
   wants to be around someone who’s drinking and is “getting furious”.
   This is what John was reacting strongly to, and I have no problem
   with that. An arrogant bastard is more self-mocking, like calling
   oneself a loud-mouthed ass. I don’t associate fighting with arrogant
   bastards, just a lot of hot air. I’ve got some friends who I describe
   as arrogant bastards and know more than enough brewers who are the
   same way at times.

   As for the review of the beer, we did review it. I called out that
   there was an inbalance between the malt and hops. It was roasty and
   bitter, which isn’t either a traditional IPA, West Coast IPA, or
   Double IPA. I called it “doughnut-like” because there was a big
   something missing in the middle. It wasn’t anything like what they
   described on their website:”Four American hop varieties are used at a
   rate of over three pounds per barrel. The result is a rich malt
   sweetness infused with bright hop flavor and aroma from beginning to
   end.” It was nothing like that, and the differences between what we
   tasted and their description couldn’t be attributed to spoilage,
   either. It was just a weird beer. We also dug around to find things
   we did like. Tried some more after some dark chocolate, we did warm
   up to it, somewhat.

   On the “What Ales Thee” podcast (WAT #5), Omar, the owner of Surly
   called Furious a West Coast IPA, although later he said they didn’t
   brew to style. He goes on to elaborate. Give the podcast a listen, if
   you haven’t heard it yet. Part of our reaction also comes from that
   background information.

   I can see we don’t share the same tastes in beer. No problem with
   that, because as my grandma said, “Taste isn’t what tastes good, it’s
   what you like.” While Hopsickle or most any of Rouge’s beer are not
   for me, I love both Pliny Edler and Younger and find them certainly
   very delicious, but as I often mention on the show, Radeberger is my
   favorite beer and I love well-executed English-style ales. Magnolia
   in SF does a great job, and they take care in keeping five of their
   beers served from the cask with the proper cellaring, and during slow
   times of the year, bring in rare casks from England and elsewhere.
   And you can take people in and taste the same beer side by side with
   its draft counterpart to really highlight the differences between
   proper cask and draft.

   Brewing outside of the established style guidelines is moving brewing
   forward. I love German beers, but in Germany, the static brewing
   scene is killing off more breweries every day. Belgium breweries are
   now being influenced by the beers being made in the US. Brasserie
   d’Achouffe and Urthel are both brewing a double IPA in Belgium. Both
   Port Brewing and Russian River keep raising the bar with building a
   synergy between what’s been going on here for the last 20 years and
   the fascinating styles and practices of brewers in Belgium. The
   infamous Watermelon Wheat was “infected” with brettanomyces, kept in
   a barrel for 18 months and the result was amazing. That’s no style at
   all but a pretty amazing beer, especially if one’s aware of lambics.
   I say that, because as we both know, more than once a glass of a
   Cantillon has been dumped out by someone who isn’t ready for it.
   Arrrrghh! to that.

   Sorry if the show rubbed you the wrong way, but John and I both felt
   that the whole Furious thing is a bit much for a beer, especially one
   the brewery calls their flagship. Second, when we tasted it, it was
   nothing like the description. As for the ratholes, we’re working on
   that.

   -Motor

3. miniguy had this to say on June 1, 2007 | Permalink

   Jeez, entertainment vs education. I like both of the podcasts, but John and Motor are much more relaxed. CBR is similar in the pre-post show, rat holes are good for entertainment. One of the reasons I like the craft beer industry better than the wine industry, is it doesn’t take itself as seriously, you can’t get to upset about it.

   Jeff, you need to get Rockstar Bartender on, have a beer and relax a bit.

   BTW I was in St. Paul last week and had a couple Surly brews, they’re perfectly good. Had better, had worse. Probably above average overall, and it’s in cans, that’s a bonus. If I lived in the upper midwest I’d head over to Wisconsin and get something from New Glarus. They could actually be the best brewer in the US, but until they have the new brewhouse done, they can only supply in Wisconsin. Although it could be some goofy state law too.

   The west coast is pretty spoiled, I moved from San Francisco to Vegas 7 years ago, and it was a shock, you’d think they could ship stuff next door, but I’ve got to pay $75 to have Jon from Bear Republic ship me a case. That’s one nice thing, you can pretty much ship anything to Vegas.

4. j.fo had this to say on June 3, 2007 | Permalink

   Great show as usual. My girlfriend is big fan of the Lindeman’s Lambic for the exact reason you said…it doesn’t taste much like “beer”. I find it to be very syrupy and I bet there is a better widely-distriubuted Lambic style beer out there.

   For your own edification, here’s some help with the pronuciation of those tricky French words:

   peche = pehsh - peach
   framboise = fram-Bwahz - raspberry
   cassis = kah-Seess - currant
   pomme - pom - apple

   -j.fo

5. Alvey had this to say on June 15, 2007 | Permalink

   It would seem that you guys totally missed the point when it comes to the Surly marketing and logo designs.

   Omar came up with the name as a reference to how he felt when he was in a bar that offered NO good beer. He feels “Surly” without a good beer to drink. If all I have to choose from is Miller, Bud or Coors then I get pretty surly as well. When he says “Get Surly” (apart from the literal meaning, IE go buy some of his beer) I feel he might be suggesting we ask something better than the standard fair found at a lot of bars here in MN.

   If you look at the logo you’ll notice that the guy with the red face has an empty glass, the guy with the big smile on his face has a nice full glass of craft beer. I can’t for the life of me imagine where you came up with the idea that this is promoting Frat Boy behavior. As you said frat boys (and Girls) generally don’t have any money or taste and wouldn’t drink a flavorful beer like this if it was the last thing on earth.

   The name Furious is obvioulsy in reference to the fact that this beer has 99 IBU’s and I quote from the can itself ” For those who favor flavor, Furious has the HOP-FIRE your taste buds have been screaming for.”

   It is not suggesting you go and get belligerent, it is simply letting you know you’re about to drink a very hoppy beer!

   Lastly, they chose a 16 OZ can so that it will actually fill a pint glass.

   It’s a shame you didn’t like the beer. I feel you are missing out. It does sound to me though that you approached the beer with some biases and that may have got in your way of enjoying it for what it is. An adventurous beer with loads of flavor.

   As for Victoria Bitter and Fosters. The Fosters brewed under license in Canada is every bit as bad as the Fosters in Australia. VB is actually owned by The Fosters Group. They fill the beers with Sugar cane, they share the same Mash, only the hops (what little of them are added) are different.

   I feel for my Aussie brethren. I hope that one day they will enjoy the choices we have for craft beer here in America.

   Next time you guys are out this way I think you should revisit the Furious. The twin Cities has a huge craft beer scene. A lot of us seam to the enjoy the stuff, I’m sure you would too if you gave it a chance.

   Alvey.

   What Ale’s Thee?